“In a lot of respects, the legal system is a moral ordering system,” says Jody Sanders—one built on competing interests and an outcomes-based way of measuring success that, he argues, rarely tells the whole story. In this episode, Jody and Todd Smith explore a concept most lawyers have felt but never had a word for: moral injury. Jody recently completed the ten-week Moral Injury Certificate Program at TCU’s Brite Divinity School and walks Todd through his capstone slides. They connect it to earlier conversations on the show, including E154’s look at the existential side of appellate work and E40’s pandemic-era episode with TLAP’s Chris Ritter, then dig into dehumanization in the legal system and the toll of wrongful convictions like Timothy Cole’s. Hear why Jody says lawyers owe themselves more grace than they usually give.
Listen to or watch the episode through the players below.
- Confronting the Existential Crisis of Appellate Practice | Kevin Dubose
- Exploring Procedural Justice | Judge Steve Leben
- Tackling Bullying in the Legal Profession | Scott Stolley
- Addiction and the Recovery Journey for Lawyers | Brian Cuban
- Taking Control of Your Practice by Setting Boundaries | Kiele Linroth Pace
- “Walking the Walk” on Lawyer Well-Being | Bree Buchanan
- Addressing Burnout in the Legal Profession | Katie Rose Guest Pryal
- Authenticity and Finding Your Place in the Law | Karen Vladeck
- Well-Being Strategies for the Pandemic and the Holidays | Chris Ritter
- Transition from Bench to Practice and Judicial Mental Health | Justice Scott Field
Click on the links below to access a specific part of the video.
- 0:00 Intro
- 4:57 Discovering How the Concept Applies to the Legal System
- 9:29 The Legal System as an Imperfect Moral Ordering System
- 16:14 Dr. Jonathan Shay and the Origins of “Moral Injury”
- 20:54 The Child Welfare System’s Moral Injury
- 26:24 The Weight of Wrongful Convictions: The Timothy Cole Case
- 30:47 Confidential Resources Through TLAP
- 36:30 Learning to Let Bad Outcomes Roll Off Your Back
- 41:33 Revisiting Kevin Dubose’s Episode on Existential Crisis
- 46:49 The Surprising Parallels Across Every Profession
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☑️ Jody Sanders | LinkedIn | X
☑️ Texas Appellate Law Podcast on LinkedIn | X | Instagram
☑️ Texas Appellate Counsel PLLC
☑️ Kelly Hart & Hallman, LLP | LinkedIn
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