Laurin Johnson: Turning Pressure into a Privilege in Legal Networking

Feeling like you’re “doing all the right networking” but not seeing any real business come in? In this episode, Laurin breaks down how lawyers can move beyond just showing up, get specific about referral sources, and turn the pressure of business development into a true competitive advantage.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Laurin Johnson discuss:

• Reframing pressure as a privilege in a legal career
• Laurin’s path from tax/estate attorney to operations consultant
• Why most lawyers struggle with networking and referrals
• How to choose the right networking groups and evaluate them
• Being a true “giver” beyond just making referrals

Key Takeaways:

• Pressure at work often signals that you care deeply and are in a position of impact, and can be reframed as a privilege rather than a burden.
• Law is a business, and building a book of business requires sales and networking skills that are rarely taught in law school or in traditional mentoring.
• Vague statements like “anyone” or “any attorney” are a good referral source make it harder for others to help you; specificity is what triggers real introductions.
• Simply attending networking meetings is not enough—relationship-building happens in one-on-ones, through follow-up, and by consistently adding value to others.
• Being a giver isn’t limited to sending referrals; connecting others, supporting their kids, amplifying them on social media, and showing up for their events can be even more powerful.

“Not all referral sources are created equal.” —  Laurin Johnson

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About Laurin Johnson: Laurin is an analytical and creative strategist who draws on her background as a trusts and estates attorney and former Membership Experience Director at USA 500 Clubs to help law firm leaders streamline operations, navigate transitions, and build sustainable growth initiatives. Holding an LL.M. in Taxation and DISC behavioral assessment certification, she combines deep insight into complex firm financials with a nuanced understanding of leadership and communication dynamics. Renowned for her agility, diplomacy, and attention to detail, Laurin partners directly with firm executives on change management, leadership development, and operational efficiency—bringing the same focus and perseverance that has earned her multiple national and world titles showing Morgan horses.

Connect with Laurin Johnson:

Website: https://mblawconsulting.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurindjohnson/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin  [00:01]

Before we jump in today’s show, if you’ve been listening to the podcast or reading any of my books, the Be That Lawyer community is clearly the next step for your growth and development as a rainmaker. Learn proven strategies, connect with ambitious lawyers just like you, and put new ideas into action. Check it out at bethatlawyer.com/community. Build your book, own your future, and be that lawyer.

 

Narrator  [00:30]

You’re listening to Be That Lawyer: Life-Changing Strategies and Resources for Growing a Successful Law Practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here is your host, Steve. Hey,

 

Steve Fretzin  [00:52]

everybody! Steve here, and welcome back to the Be That Lawyer podcast. Listen, we want to help you be that lawyer. So, as you guys know, this show is to help you do all the stuff you never learned in law school, right? Those pesky things like networking and branding and marketing and time management and and all that crap they never signed up for. But guess what? It’s now on your plate. If you’re listening to this show, it’s not because you’re a service partner that you want to stay a service partner. It’s because you want to build something beautiful, have freedom, independence, and financial freedom in your in your life, and this is the show to get you started. If you’re interested in taking a baby step forward beyond the show, I have books on Amazon you can check out, or we have the Be That Lawyer community, almost 100 rainmakers and business developing attorneys there to answer your questions alongside me. We’ve got all my content as well as some live events and things that are going to keep you on track. So, if you just need a baby step between a coach and where you are now, I’d recommend joining Be That Lawyer community. It’s bethatlawyer.com/community. I’ve got Laurin waiting in the wings. How are you, my friend?

 

Laurin Johnson  [01:58]

I’m great. Great to be here.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:00]

Yeah, great to have you. We had such a lovely lunch in the city. You and Margaret came in, and we we got to have a. I don’t think I was drinking at that time, but because I was prepping for a Rush concert with my son, you’d think I’d be drinking, but no, I was. I was. I was gonna enjoy

 

Laurin Johnson  [02:15]

more of a marathon than a sprint. You got that was yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:17]

I had like a long way before that concert, and even then in the concert, I didn’t do anything. I was like as sober as it can be, but that’s okay. We had a lovely time together, but wonderful meeting you and learning about you. And and I thought, wow, what an incredible person to have on the show with your background. So I’m really thrilled that you’re here.

 

Laurin Johnson  [02:33]

Thank you. Delighted to be here.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:34]

All right, I’m a big tennis fan. So when you say Billie Jean King is the quote of the show, I was all over that. So here we go. Pressure is a privilege. It comes only to those who earn it. So tell us a little bit why you love that quote.

 

Laurin Johnson  [02:48]

You know that quote is one that just really resonates with me. I think so often we take on a lot. We’re sort of spinning out. We’re stressed and not focusing on the bigger picture. Not stepping back and not thinking about how how lucky we are to get to do something where there is pressure involved, right? When you’re you know to whether you’re a business owner and my role is consulting and doing operations consulting for law firms, right? There is pressure to that. It’s a demanding profession. I’m a former practicing attorney, another demanding profession, and I think sometimes we get so in our head that we don’t step back to think how lucky we are to get to do something like that, where there is pressure involved. I’m a lifelong competitor. I have shown horses competitively my entire life, and we were talking before the show, and I said, you know, even though I’ve showed my entire life, I get nervous before every single competition. But I always think about it like I’m getting nervous because there’s pressure involved because I care, and that’s a privilege. A lot of times, right? That pressure is coming because we want to be successful. We really care about the work that we’re doing, and we forget to remind ourselves of that. And instead of seeing it as a negative, to me shift that paradigm. This is a positive. You’re lucky to be in this position to get to do what you’re doing now. Make the most of it.

 

Steve Fretzin  [04:10]

Well, let’s so let’s think about someone who has no pressure at all, and what are they accomplishing? You know, probably very little, right? They’re just they’re streaming, you know, shows one after another for you know, weeks at a time or whatever. So I think we all have the privilege of being under pressure. Obviously, we want to balance that, you know, with life and having fun and energy and and all that. But you know, that’s where a lot of this show comes in. Like when we talk about networking today, you know, networking is a lot of pressure. Showing up, being on, meeting with people. There’s a lot of introverts that, you know, this is like you might as well just like stick a needle in their eye or tell them to go to a networking event. So there’s there’s pressure. Our job in this show and what you’re going to help today is like yeah, there’s pressure, but can we reduce the pressure by being well prepared? I was mentioning you like I get on stage in front of 1000 people or 10 people, I’m. Not nervous, and the reason is, is because I’m so well prepared. If I wasn’t prepared, and they were going to ask me about some random thing, then I would be nervous. But if I’m talking about any of my subject matter, then no, less nervous. But you know, it’s okay to be nervous too. Yeah, that’s just part of it. But I, I think the pressure we’re trying to reduce the pressure through being amazing at what we do. So, any other things you want to share about your background and how you got together with Margaret MB Consulting? Sure.

 

Laurin Johnson  [05:26]

Thank you for asking. So, as I mentioned, I’m a former estate planning and tax planning attorney. I went to Suffolk Law up here in Boston, and then immediately after graduating, sat for the Massachusetts Bar, and then went down to Georgetown Law where I did my LLM in taxation and certificate in estate planning. So definitely a little bit of a tax and a numbers nerd, and love to geek out on that type of stuff. Came back up here to Boston to practice. Practiced for about seven and a half years. Was an associate at two firms and then moved to a firm where I took an of counsel position, so I know what it’s like to be a young baby, an attorney, and really rising up through the ranks. I also know what it’s like to have to run my own practice and be solely responsible for that. And then, unfortunately, was in a bad car accident, and as part of my recovery from that, had to step back for a little bit from the law, which so a lot of times that idea of recovering attorneys are people that really didn’t enjoy practicing. I loved it. I absolutely loved practicing. Having to sort of pivot, I ended up with an incredible opportunity. I was a member of USA 500 Clubs, which is a national networking organization that caters mainly to attorneys, CPAs, and then other high-level professional service providers. I was a member there. Was given an opportunity to go and work for that company, which was really a lot of fun. I I went in initially in sort of sales and recruitment, identifying new territories and helping the company expand, and then really moved into running day to day operations, got very involved in social media and our marketing efforts as well, and was was there for many years and was really sort of looking for my next challenge and trying to figure out what I can do. I’m somebody who likes to wear a lot of hats. I like to genuinely feel like I’m making a difference and helping people, and that’s when I met Margaret Burke, who is the founder and CEO of MB Law Firm Consulting. We exclusively focus on operations consulting for small and mid-sized law firms, really focusing on the business side of running a law firm. And when I met her, I said to myself, “This is somebody I need to go need to go work for, and I’m I’m going to do whatever it takes to make that happen. Because for me, I felt like it perfectly married my experience of years practicing with all the operations experience I gained at USA 500 and all the coaching I did during that time of really helping attorneys get the most out of the networking organization and really position themselves as subject matter experts, but through that course, I would hear a lot of like what they feel like is broken in the way law firms are set up or running, or things that were preventing them from their business development efforts. And a lot of it goes back to the operations. So I felt like that was a space I could make a real difference in.

 

Steve Fretzin  [08:19]

Yeah, and when I met you. I didn’t immediately think, “Oh, we should talk about operations on my Be the Lawyer podcast. It was right away. I was like, “I want to leverage what you know about networking and how you help lawyers in that capacity. And that’s that’s a skill that needs to continue to be honed and everything. And you know, there’s so many lawyers that think they’re good at networking, but if you look at their numbers. If you look at how much business they actually bring in, it’s a lot less than than they expected or what they thought it should be. They just they just know that they’re out there and they’re they’re meeting and they’re doing all the exercise of networking. That doesn’t necessarily make you a successful networker. So, what do you see as the greatest challenges that lawyers have getting started in networking? I want to talk to you a little bit later about, you know, again the more advanced folks. But let’s start at the beginning.

 

Laurin Johnson  [09:06]

I think it can be incredibly daunting and overwhelming. I think, again, the law school curriculum doesn’t. It’s changing over time, but there’s not a huge focus on the fact that law is a business. They really focus on training you how to think, but you’re not thinking about the fact that law is a business, and that if you want to rise through the ranks and ultimately be an equity partner, a managing partner, have your own book of business, there’s a sales component to that role, and that’s just not something that we’re trained to think about. And therefore, a lot of firms. That’s not a component of the way they’re training younger attorneys or the mentoring process. That we focus so much on teaching you how to be a good practitioner, but not how to actually bring people in the door. But also a big part of it, right? Is people think, okay, well, I can’t. I’m so young. Nobody’s going to give me business. Well, maybe not now, but you’re paving the road because you’re not always going to be young in your profession. But it’s also about resources that you can bring to your clients. So attorneys are uniquely suited to refer a lot of business to other people. The reason being is that while other attorneys know lots of other attorneys, a lot of people don’t necessarily know tons of attorneys. They have their one go-to person that they go to with every single legal question they have, whether it’s in that person’s area of expertise or not.

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:35]

Yeah,

 

Laurin Johnson  [10:35]

you tend to be that trusted advisor for your clients, but for friends and family as well. So when somebody comes to you and says, “Hey, Lauren, you’re my friend. You’re an attorney. Can you hand? You know, I have an employment law issue. That was not my area. I’m going to refer you to somebody else, right? So you’re uniquely suited to refer to other people. Part of networking is building up that network. One of the biggest value adds you can bring to your clients is when they say, “Hey, do you know somebody that does fill in that blank? You want to always be able to say, “Yes, I do. In fact, I know several people. Let me make that connection. Or different response, equally as good. You know, I don’t, but I’ve got an incredible network, so I will get you some names that are that I can trust and that I know are vetted because of the people I’m associated with. Both are equally great answers. You can’t say yes if you don’t have that network to back you up. So that’s part of it is like building up that support system for you and your clients.

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:36]

Right. So there’s two important elements to building a network and to getting business from networking, and you’re you’re bringing up one very important point, which is you need to build out a network that’s wide of the best people. And so, like if you go on five dates, one of them or two of them are going to be good, three of them are going to be bad.

 

Laurin Johnson  [11:55]

Yep,

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:55]

you need to date enough estate planning attorneys or litigators or whatever to know that your network is robust with being in a position to refer, and that’s why networking groups like USA 500 and Improvisers are so valuable because you’re building up a network of people that you like and trust and know are good, so that you have the ability to refer out. And I think lawyers do generally better at that than the next place I’m going to go, which is to then go deep, and so having a network to refer, great, that’s important, and you want to be that person, that guy, that gal, whatever. The other part of it is like, who are your best referral partners? And so I asked a lawyer the other day, and he goes, “Well, really anyone, and I said, “No, that’s not the case.

 

Laurin Johnson  [12:40]

A

 

Steve Fretzin  [12:40]

personal injury attorney is not going to be likely to refer you the same as as an executive comp attorney because the executive comp attorney has the same clients that you have. The personal injury attorney doesn’t. So while any attorney can look through their Rolodex in that wide network and find you if they need you. The likelihood of them needing you is far less than someone who’s dealing with the same people with different problems, but in the same world that you’re in.

 

Laurin Johnson  [13:09]

Right.

 

Steve Fretzin  [13:10]

Go

 

Laurin Johnson  [13:10]

right. And people, right? People think I’m casting a wide net. Anybody’s a good referral source, and I will say I cringe when people say that. They’re like anybody or any attorney. I’m like, okay, well, you’ve you’ve lost me because make it easy for me to introduce you to people that are helpful to you. Not all referral sources are created equally. There’s just based on what you specialize in, there are certain people you naturally can refer to more often, and there are certain people that can naturally refer to you. So I would, when I was working for USA 500, I would ask that question of members all the time, and they and so often attorneys; those are my best referral sources. I said, “Okay, well, with USA 500’s model, 65% of the membership has to be comprised of practicing attorneys and CPAs. So you basically just told me that 65% of the members are really good referral sources for you, which means in my mind, not one singular person comes to mind of who I should connect you with. However, if you say to me, plaintiff side employment law attorneys are great referrals for me. Five people just came to the top of my list, and I’m going to make those intros right now. So by not getting specific, you people won’t make introductions. I’m not just going to randomly start introducing you to attorneys. Like I’m not, I’m not going to do that, right? You’ve got to be really specific, but it also means you’ve got to take the time to really dissect that and take a look at that. And that’s where I think a lot of people, Steve, fall short. There, they think I just need to be out networking, but they’re not running the numbers. They’re not looking at return on investment. They’re not looking. They’re not tracking who referred them in different cases. So the reason they’re going really general is because they actually don’t know the answer to that question, and they don’t want to say that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [14:55]

Yeah,

 

Laurin Johnson  [14:55]

more often than not, they don’t want to say, “I don’t know who a good referral source is. That feels even worse than. Saying attorneys or anybody,

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:02]

and one of the worst feelings you’ll ever have is when you’re in a group and someone asks a question like, “Oh, do you do that? And it’s like exactly what you do, and they didn’t even know that. Well, you didn’t articulate clearly enough, you know, not only what you do, but maybe who you want to meet and what makes a great specific client for you, or a connector for you, and so lawyers that get a lot of business from wealth advisors and CPAs and estate planners, but you never mention that. You just say like, you know, I get referrals from anyone that needs X. Then that’s when you fall when when things are going to fall short.

 

Laurin Johnson  [15:37]

Absolutely.

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:38]

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Laurin Johnson  [17:30]

Great question. I always think you need to involve yourself typically in in numerous organizations, but you want to be really intentional about it. So for me, when I was practicing, I was involved in the Boston Estate Planning Council and the Boston Trust and Estates Consortium, and they were all related to estate planning attorneys and anybody in that space. That’s really important because what people also don’t realize is often some of your best referral sources are your quote unquote competitors. Not every estate planning client is a good fit for me. I may be conflicted out. I may be at capacity. I don’t want to just turn business away. I want to say I’m really sorry. I’m not able to take you on, but I’d like to introduce you to estate planning attorneys over here who are great. It’s also important from having people that if you can just pick their brains on certain things of like I’m you know. So I think being in groups that are sort of related to your professional area are important, and then being in what I would describe like a Provisors USA 500 or more practice agnostic groups where you’re meeting people in a lot of different specialties because again that expands your resources that you can offer to your clients.

 

Steve Fretzin  [18:41]

But and but different groups have different requirements. So providers, you need to be like as an expert in your space or been in your space for 10 years, right? They typically allow one person in a lane, so there’s not a competitiveness. Now that that is a little flexible, but that’s yep. And then we’re looking for people that either are great networkers or that are interested in developing and growing, and sometimes those people are good too. Like if you just find someone that is so networked out, it’s hard for them to then focus on giving to you because they already have five people in your area. But when you find someone that maybe doesn’t have the big network, they feel like they’re a kid in a candy store because they’ve got all these new resources they can be sending their clients to, but when I started out, like Chamber of Commerce was my jam because I was working with small businesses and solos, and it was a local financial planner, it was a local carpet cleaner, and they were all there, right? And then as I started, kind of like you know, like going to the higher, you know, than BNI, like more of a leads group where there’s more function and control. Then eventually, I work with lawyers. Let me go where the lawyers are. Where are they? Well, they’re in these, you know, professional services. So go where, go where the level and where the people are, where your connectors are, and where your actual clients are. And that’s and those are the ones. And then test them out. Like don’t join some. Go once, meet the person running it. Make sure that it’s a well facilitated meeting. Make sure you like the people in the group. And ran a group yesterday. A guy who’s in in the audit space came up to me right after, and he was like, “He’s like, this was incredible. Like, where do I sign? And I was like, “Okay, well, let’s. We’re gonna talk it through. But yeah, but I’m. That makes me feel really great that he appreciated the structure of the meeting, the people he met, the level of the room. It was exactly what he was looking for. Not, you know, where you know where everything’s like, everything’s disorganized. No one’s on time with anything. We have to skip part of the agenda because they’re not following, you know, following the time constraints and all that, and I’m I’m crazy about time. I mean, maybe maybe over the top crazy, but that’s what makes I think the meetings run well, where we are always on on target. So anyway, that’s I just want to share about like finding that, and then what’s one tip that you would give to people who find themselves attending a lot and meeting with people for coffees and lunches and drinks, but they’re not quite getting the referrals, or they’re not quite getting the results from the time that they’re putting in. What’s your biggest tip?

 

Laurin Johnson  [21:11]

My biggest tip is to go to people in that network that you respect and trust, and ask them, and be honest. I and say, I feel like I’m doing everything I should. I feel like I’m putting the time in, and I’m following up, and I’m visible, and and yet I’m not getting any business.

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:27]

Yeah.

 

Laurin Johnson  [21:28]

What are your thoughts? Because somebody, because when you ask somebody, they may come in and say, honestly, your messaging is incredibly confusing. I wouldn’t have said anything, but you’re asking, so let me tell you why they may be seeing things about how you’re presenting or how your message is being received that you’re unaware of.

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:43]

Yeah, it’s hard to read the label from inside the bottle, right? Whether it’s it’s networking, business development, marketing, and you know that’s why getting feedback from other members you trust, the leader, a coach, whatever it might be, you might be like, I I would just keep doing this wrong for the next you know five years because no one told me and I didn’t know, so you know. And the guy in my group mentioned, you know, got the question, “Do you do this? And it was exactly what he does. I mean, that means that he needs to clarify his infomercial. And I also said to him, “I go, you know, the other thing is, I think you’re showing up for the meetings, but you’re not meeting with people individually. You’re a relationship guy. When you meet with people individually, it’s very hard for them not to know what you do or to not think of you because you put in a little extra 30 minutes an hour with them one on one versus them seeing you monthly in the group, right? Right.

 

Laurin Johnson  [22:35]

Absolutely. I think you know there’s that Woody Allen quote of sort of 80% of success in life is just showing up. That is absolutely wrong when it comes to networking. Just showing up is not going to really get you anywhere. And I think people apply that logic. They’re like, “Well, I’m at the meeting. And to your point, well, are you meeting with people individually? Are you speaking up in that meeting? If you’re there and you don’t talk the whole time, were you really there at all? I mean, arguably no. That was a waste of your time, right? You’ve got to be, you have to be visible, and you have to build relationships and get to know people, right? Spending an hour or two once a month in a meeting where you barely say anything, or you say one time what you do, and then thinking that that’s going to resonate and that people are going to remember that, and that you’re going to be top of mind. They don’t know you. They need. We refer to people. It’s that no like trust. We want to refer to people that we like and that we trust, which means I need to get to know you before I can assess that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [23:32]

Yeah, and something that some groups do, and I know we do in provisors. That’s really powerful. Is we do testimonials, and what happens is you hear the same people getting thanked over and over and over again, and you hear people that are never thanked. And I want to give a shout out to the people who are never thanked. The reason you’re never being thanked is because you’re not giving any value, you’re not giving connections, you’re not utilizing the network to help your clients with things outside of what you do, and I’m not trying to shame anybody, but I’m letting you know right off the bat: showing up to Lauren’s point isn’t the goal. The goal is to show up to build relationships and to leverage the people in the room as value and trusted resources to your clients, to your network. And you’re not doing it. You’re not putting in the work that’s going to allow you to help others, help your client, and help someone in the room to be together, to be successful. And then you’re wondering why you’re putting in hundreds of hours a year and a year and not getting anything. You’re not being the giver, which is at the heart of that 80% 20% showing up, Lauren. Right? 80% is what you’re doing when you show up, and that is giving and being a giver.

 

Laurin Johnson  [24:45]

Yeah, and I think people misinterpret what being a giver means. They think that means I’m referring you business. That is a component of giving. That’s not the only way that you can give to people in your network. Right, being a connector is. Far more valuable. You could refer me one client, and I’m grateful for that client. That’s one client. If you connect me with somebody who has the ability to continue referring me people, that one introduction is far more valuable to me than you sending me one client. Find ways to support one another. Somebody’s speaking at the bar, whatnot, showing up for that, helping to promote it, going on social media. Who are the people that are making posts, reposting their content, things like that, helping to drive their visibility awareness to them. These are there’s so many different ways that you can give, even if you don’t have a referral to give to somebody. And I think in a networking context, people like I don’t have a referral. That’s the only way I can give. That’s just that’s simply it’s very it’s

 

Steve Fretzin  [25:42]

very hard, Lauren. I mean, I don’t have business to give all of these. I have 30 people in a room. I don’t have business to give 30 people, and I’m working in a niche. I don’t work with CEOs and HR directors and the people they want to meet. My goal is to do what you’re saying, which is to refer them to the lawyers that I know that can feed them the work to help their college college kid who wants to get into sales, marketing, branding, right? To help them find or her find a job or to get them an internship and build value that way. It’s to help them on social media. To your point, so important what you just said because there that misnomer makes networking very scary. Like I don’t have anything to give. When in fact you do, you just have to open it up to a wider net than I have a piece of business for you,

 

Laurin Johnson  [26:32]

right? And and part of it is you’ve got to be an active listener. Somebody’s talking about their kid who’s looking for an internship. You should immediately be thinking yourself, how can I help? So often we just say, “Oh, good! I hope your kid gets one, and it ends there. And you didn’t do anything wrong, but you weren’t helpful. And for most people, if you help them with their kid or a personal matter, they will never forget that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:54]

Yeah,

 

Laurin Johnson  [26:54]

and they will go out of their way to want to help you again. They will say that was more valuable to me than you sending me 10 clients. You helped my kid get a job.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:02]

Yeah, like forget about it. Like you’re you’re you’re a lock. You’re you’re you’re a lock. And the

 

Laurin Johnson  [27:06]

opportunities, if you again, if you change your mindset and you you really show up and you’re present in these meetings and you’re looking for opportunities of how you can help people. If that is your mindset, I want to listen for opportunities to help people. It will change every meeting that you’re in. It will be more interesting, more fun, and you will find so many opportunities that are there that you just you weren’t looking for them before, and they they pass right over you.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:31]

Yep, yep, awesome. Well, Lauren, we have covered a lot of ground from from all the way from the very beginning. You know, selection of a group all the way through what’s the most valuable thing you should be doing in a group? And I’m hoping that everybody listening is is getting some value from what we’re sharing because there’s a lot of mistakes that we’ve made and there’s a lot of experience behind you and I becoming great networkers and helping other people to become great networkers. But on the other side of the coin, what’s Lauren’s big mistake?

 

Laurin Johnson  [27:58]

God, I’ve made so many, Steve. We would need 12 podcasts to cover up.

 

Steve Fretzin  [28:02]

Most common answer on the board is right. Here’s

 

Laurin Johnson  [28:05]

one I made really early in my career. I’m a first year associate at a law firm at an estate planning department. Was working on a client matter, and I had a question about something. Right, and so instead of you know, so I just marched myself down to the partner’s office, and I politely knocked on the door and asked if I could have a few minutes of their time. And they said yes. And I sat down. I said, “I’m working on this file that you signed to me, and I’ve got a question about X, Y, and Z. And the partner said, “And what have you done to try to answer that question? And I said, “I I walked down here to your office, and she said, “She said, let me just let me get this straight. You, you’re an associate. I’m a partner. I bill out at a much higher rate than you do, and arguably, right? I’m working on much more complicated things than you are. And you came across something you didn’t know the answer to, and instead of doing anything to try to answer it for yourself. You thought the best option was to come in here, interrupt me, stop me from doing billable client work to answer a question you couldn’t be bothered to try to answer for yourself. If I could have just burst into flames in that moment, I 100% feel like I would have. It was, I was terrified. That’s

 

Steve Fretzin  [29:22]

got to be terrified. Horrified,

 

Laurin Johnson  [29:23]

horrified of like that’s exactly what happened, and what what was going through my brain that made me think that was appropriate? Nothing. I I I wasn’t thinking right. It was just, and I said, that’s that’s a yes. You summarized that to perfection. That was exactly what happened. And she said, “And and where would you like to go from here? And I said, “I would like to tuck my tail between my legs and and politely get out of your office as quickly as possible and go try to find the answer myself. She said, “I think that’s a real accident approach. If after trying to resolve it yourself, you can’t come back here and look at that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [29:57]

Wow, what a great life lesson! Hope. Was

 

Laurin Johnson  [30:01]

it was such a great life lesson of never ask a question unless you’ve tried to answer it

 

Laurin Johnson  [30:06]

yourself. People are so much more willing to help you if you can say, “I’ve hit, I’ve hit a stumbling. I don’t know the answer. Here’s what I’ve done to try to answer

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:16]

it.

 

Laurin Johnson  [30:16]

Don’t ask people to just spoon feed you things because you’re you’re sort of then saying that your time is more about my time is more valuable. I can’t be bothered to look this up. Just give it to me. No, try to answer it yourself.

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:27]

I love that. And the other lesson is it’s a disservice to you because you’re giving giving a teenager an answer. Like my son is going to going. We got to book a hotel for him to go out to college. He’s driving. We’re driving out to college. All that, and you know, I could just book the hotel, but no, we said no. You look up the hotel and you book it. Let him do the things that are gonna. So I think that lawyer, you know, maybe could have been nicer, but ultimately you needed that harsh reality, and I love that. And you’re never gonna make that mistake again because that’s such an incredible. I love. It

 

Laurin Johnson  [30:58]

was hard in the moment, but I think she played it right because it shocked me to my core, and it has changed the way I am professionally. And I’m so it has served me. It serves me every single day.

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:09]

So great.

 

Laurin Johnson  [31:10]

That was a great lesson. So that was a big mistake that I made embarrassingly and publicly, but it served me well. So

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:16]

yeah, well, fantastic. Hey, let’s take a moment. Thank our incredible sponsors. Of course, PimCon coming up. It’s getting tight. Sign up today. Go to PimCon and check that out. The top personal injury mastermind conference of the year. Of course, Lex reception. If you are answering your phones, for shame, don’t do it. There are professionals that can do it. You know, I was just buying flowers for my wife, and I call the flower shop, and I just got you know this is when we’re open, and I’m thinking they should be selling flowers 24/7, not you know when we’re open. Like that is like how much business are you are you throwing away? So don’t do that as a lawyer. People want to reach you at 10 o’clock. You should have someone answering your phone. And of course, lawyer.com. If you’re not being found online, you’re probably not a part of lawyer.com. Check them out and get together with it right away, Lauren. People want to get in touch with you. Learn more about MB Law Firm Consulting. The best digits.

 

Laurin Johnson  [32:07]

Best. My phone number. I’m happy to give out my personal cell, which is 617-888-1415. You can also email me, which is Lauren. I do spell it differently, so it’s L A U R I n@mblawconsulting.com.

 

Steve Fretzin  [32:25]

Yeah, fantastic. Well, I’m so happy that we met for lunch with with Margaret and that we were able to get you on the show. And and I’m just so so grateful that we were able to have this conversation, help some lawyers today to do things a little more proactively and effectively with their networking. So appreciate you so much, and I’m looking forward to continue to work with you and Margaret. You two, my favorite people now. So we’ll keep it going.

 

Laurin Johnson  [32:47]

Thank you so much, Steve. So much fun. This was really, and I told you it was going to fly by,

 

Steve Fretzin  [32:51]

didn’t I?

 

Laurin Johnson  [32:52]

Yes, absolutely. It

 

Steve Fretzin  [32:54]

goes by in a blink, folks. Well, hopefully everybody got some great takeaways. I know I counted at least at least 10 things that we talked about today that may hit you the right way or the wrong way to get you on a better track, helping you to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. You guys, it’s time to build that book, own your future, and be that lawyer. Take care, be safe, and be well. We’ll talk again soon.

 

Narrator  [33:21]

Thanks for listening to “Be That Lawyer: Life-Changing Strategies and Resources for Growing a Successful Law Practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.